Third+Period-+Question+3

Group Members: Adam Glasser, David Wheaton, Lisa Jelowik, Anna Jones =Question #3= ===How much does a person’s religion, or lack of religion, and social class affect with whom they become friends?How much does a person’s religion, or lack of religion, and social class affect with whom they become friends?===

Rachel Wilson responding to Adam G as Holden: ADAM! you sound just like Holden. I couldnt tell the difference. I think you make a good point about how Holden feels about different religions and how he deals with people who talk to him about them. You use alot of informative quotes that really capture the feelings that Holden has for religions. I don't agree with you though when you say that money and religion can shape who you become friends with. Maybe that was the case in the past, but now-a-days, people of all religions and social classes are friends. I do agree with you though when you said you didnt have to worry about the things that were "mroe bourgeois" with Stradlater because, like you said, at Elkton Hills, people made a bigger deal about the amount of money that Holden has. I think you (Adam) captured Holden's thoughts on religion, money and friendships very well.

Adam G. from the perspective of Holden: Even if you don’t want them to, both money and religion play a major role in who you become friends with, if you want to know the truth. For one, “Catholics are always trying to find out if you’re Catholic” (112). I have to deal with that all the time, especially because Caulfield is an Irish name. I mean Catholic people can enjoy being around you either way, as long as your nice to them, but they will really really enjoy hanging out with you if your Catholic. I’m not saying that I blame them, but that’s just the way it is. And also “money makes me blue as hell” (113). Like as dumb as this sounds “I hate it when someone has inexpensive looking suitcases” (108). That’s probably because one of my roommates at Elkton Hills, Dick Slagle, always made a big deal about my fancy suitcases. He said they were “too new or bourgeois” and stuff (108). He thought a lot of my stuff was bourgeois, even the stuff I let him borrow. We didn’t get along so hot, which is probably why we got new roomies only two months later. I mean, he was a good guy, if you want to know the truth, and I liked him a lot better than a lot of the phonies at Elkton Hills. It was probably just that money thing, it made a difference, if you were there you’d probably know what I was talking about. One of the best things about Stradlater was he was at least as rich as I am, so we didn’t have to worry about whose things were more bourgeois. But trust me, as sad as it is, money and religion can make a hell of a difference of who you become friends with.

Adam G: A person’s religion and social class have a great affect on who they are friends with because of their events, pressure, and amount of comfort. An incredible amount of events are put on by religious centers and therefore people will be around each other often. Not only does my church have Sunday service, but there are also luncheons, Sunday schools, Bible studies, mission trips, choir performances, picnics etc… Likewise, social classes have events that expose people of the same class to one another. For the rich it may be days at the country club, for the poor it may be something that brings many people in poverty together. Whether someone likes the people of their religion and social class or not, they will inevitably be around them often and hopefully make friends. Societal pressures also play a role in selecting friends. If it a religious believe that believers are the saved, pure people, then a member may be pressured to not make too many friends with atheists or even members of even members of other faiths. Although this pressure is subtle, it is often existent. The same goes for social classes. Throughout history and in cultures across the globe, it has been scorned upon to marry someone of a lower class. People are taught by society to make friends with those who have a similar status. It may not seem right, but pressure like this is unquestionably common. Beyond outside pressures, people with the same religion and class may also feel more comfortable around people who are the same as them. If someone is an atheist, they may feel the need to spend time with not very religious people, rather than someone who is radically religious. Someone who is poor may be uncomfortable inviting a much richer person into their home, or even vice versa. It is important to remember that religion, or lack there of, and class are far from the only factors that affect who people are friends with. People make friends with those of other religions and classes all the time, and there are obviously other pieces to the puzzle of friendship. Still, it is undeniable that religion and class play a part through their events, pressures, and comfort.

Bridget G.(response) I agree with Adam to an extent. Many times people relate to others that they have things in common with. How many friends do you have that you have nothng in common with? Very few I would guess. However religion and social class are two of the biggest categories, so there would be an "open market" for friendship so to speak. While occasionally people break out from their predestined class and religion, most times we revert back to the way we were raised, and we seek people who we can relate to.

Bobby M: I disagree with you Adam. I think that a persons choice of friends doesn't have to deal with their social class or religious views. Take me for example, I'm catholic, but I don't hang out with other catholic people because they're catholic. I don't really care what religion you are, or where you come from socially, as long as you're a good person who is fun to chill with, then I don't care where you come from. Now granted, it is a way for you to meet potential friends but I don't really think it greatly affects who we become friends with, or at least it shouldn't. But I do see what you are saying, that people are pressured by others to choose the friends they do, but I don't consider pressured people to be friends. If I don't really think I want to spend time chilling with that person and someone tells me I should be friends with them because they have a similar amount of money as me, or the same religion as me, then I don't think they count as a friend. As Holden would put it they would be a "phony" friend.

Whitney (to Bobby) I can see where Adam is coming from, but I'd have to agree with Bobby on this one. It all depends on the person, but just because someone is of the same religion doesn't mean I'm friends with them. Just because they are a different religion, doesn't mean I'm not friends with them. I think these days religion doesn't really play such a key factor in our lives as it did in the old days. A church or a synagogue is a good place to meet potential friends, there's no denying that, but I don't think that is where all friendships are formed. Social class is a little trickier but it's sort of the same. Just because someone is the same social class as me, doesn't automatically mean I'm going to be friends with them. And just because they are in a lower or higher class than I am doesn't affect my desire to get to know them. I am friends with people of all religions (or lack of) and all social backgrounds but I know this is not the case with many people. I really all depends on the person.

Kristofer Holmquist- I would definitely have to agree with you Adam. Though people today are more open to making friends outside of their normal circles, we must remember that for many years past this was not the case. As Adam said, it would be frowned upon by society to marry a person of a lower class than you. In our new and different age, we are taught or old customs and beliefs but less emphasis is put on demeaning the other groups we will inevitably interact with. In my case, I was raised protestant baptist and I was taught that all people are good people and are not inferior because they do not share the same views as my family had. Knowing this, I was able to look past a large separating force that is religion, and make different kinds of friends. Though it becomes more complicated as people grow. Because, let's face it, when you're a kid you really don't know much about what religion really is. So, when an adult creates his own ideals, he becomes strongly tied to these ideals and may reject other adults.

Lisa
Religion and the social class affect with whom people become friends but it depends on where people live and how important religion or the social class is for them. Some religious people might not accept people that don´t believe in the same things as they do. It´s also possible, that they are friends but later notice that a friendship does not work if they have different opinions about religion, because they have arguments about what religion is right or wrong. People of the upper class might not want to be friends with people from the lower class. They could think one of them will always feel uncomfortable if they would go shopping together or do something else. Also, there are different schools for children. There are private schools and schools for religious children. They don´t have to go there, but if they do, they usually have friends who are also in the upper class or have the same opinion about religion. And because they spend most of the day at school, they probably don´t have many friends from other schools. Furthermore, it is possible that parents don´t want their children to be friends with someone who is from another social class or believes in a different religion. In some countries, it is forbidden to marry someone from another social class or with other religious believes. Even in countries where there is no law that says people can´t marry someone from another class or with another religion, people don´t do it because they were taught by their parents, that this is not right. However, if it doesn´t make a difference for parents who their children are friends with and if they go to a public school, they are probably friends with people from any social class or religion.

Lisa- from the perspective of Holden I would definitely say that a person´s religion or social class affects with whom they become friends. Take all the phonies for example. Do you think they would like to hang out with someone who is not a phony? They wouldn´t have anything to talk about. Phonies only talk about how they are like and how their goddam life is and are not interested in how others feel. That´s the only thing they talk about all day long. Catholics aren´t different from those phonies. “Catholics are always trying to find out if you´re Catholic.” (pg. 112). If you are, they have something to talk about and if not, they are not interested in you. People who are completely different from each other don´t like to hang out together. Also people from different social classes are not often friends. The one who doesn´t have much money can´t do the same things the other one can do. Somebody will get angry when they can´t do a lot of things together. Phonies are getting angry so quickly. Kids are different. Children don´t care what social class you´re in or if you´re a catholic or not. I´m so glad they´re different.

Lisa- last post My opinion hasn´t changed after reading the novel. I still think that religion and the social class affect people´s choices of friends. I also think Holden would agree with that statement. In the past, it probably affected more people than today but it is still important for most people. However, sometimes it is not our choice to not be friends with someone who has different believes or another social class but it is because of the place in which we grow up. As kids we might live in a neighborhood where people live who earn more money than others. So the first kids we get to know are the ones who live right next door to us. If we think religion and the social class is important or not depends on our opinion about it and on how we grow up.

Religion has a complex influence on friendship that tends to vary from person to person. For some people, religious gatherings are a means of meeting other people as well as a form of worship. After finishing school, many adults have chaotic and busy lives and they hardly ever get a chance to converse with people outside of a stressful work environment. Churches and other places of worship can provide them with a rare chance to socialize without having to worry about getting fired or meeting deadlines. This relaxed, friendly environment certainly makes people more likely to make friends with people of similar religious backgrounds. Likewise, people who work together tend to make similar wages and have roughly the same social status, which makes them fare more likely to become friends. However, both of these events tend to be less true for people who are still in school. From Kindergarten to Graduate School, students from many different backgrounds have ample time to socialize. Although the degree to which this is true can vary based on location and whether the school is public or private, school is generally a more diverse environment than the workplace. Employers tend to hire their employees to do similar work, so the employees get similar pay. In school, however, the most talented students may not come from the most socially elite families. Also, since they usually have more free time than adults do at school, students usually rely more their free time for socializing than they rely on religious events. Therefore, younger people rely far more on religious events and have a stronger tendency to make friends within their social class than adults do.
 * David**

Bradli - Response to Adam's Interpretation Growing up, I was taught by my relatives that the term 'atheist' was something to be associated with a class of people who were either unintelligent, rebellious, ignorant, or all of the above. I was taught and raised to recognize the existence of a 'God' unquestioningly, and to give a church 'alms' so I could find religious enlightenment in my later life. This is the kind of 'subtle pressure' that Adam talks about, and it is completely true. I've gotten in many a row with my parents about religion, and I've become a misfit at family gatherings for not following the tradition of bible-thumping Christianity (I am an atheist). I feel as though many friends are determined by this social castigation. If I were to live out in the mountains of NC, I would likely not have as many social interactions with people because I can't tolerate a lot of the things considered acceptable for organized religion. In our society, I still see the vestiges of holy wars, jihads, crusades, or whatever you might call them. At one point in human history, it was common to persecute someone for their religion. The same, societally, is still true to this day.

Alexa (response) - In my opinion, the impact religion and social class have is somewhere in between what Adam and Bobby said. I’d disagree with Adam that it has a great affect, especially in our culture today. As Bradli addressed, in the early days of America people were persecuted based solely on religious beliefs, and it was definitely taboo to associate with people from a different social class than your own. However, today it’s not as big a factor. I would also disagree with Bobby though, in that it doesn’t have anything to do with it. Religion and social class affect who we are as people, and it’s always there in your subconscious. While I don’t think it’s a deciding factor, and you wouldn’t choose your friends based off of it, I think it does play a role in who you end up spending your time with, especially because they help to dictate where you go, what you do, and how you act.

John Benton I would respectfully disagree with Bobby in that social class have little affect on who we as people surround ourselves and associate with. Social class has always been something that separates people.. regardless of place or time period. For example, take a school club. If the outdoor club wanted to go on a ski trip, it is unlikely that an individual of lower-class could attend, due to high cost. Therefore, only middle-upper class students could attend. This would leave poorer people out on a trip in which students hang out with each other for a long period of time and become friends. Also, most of us know from personal experience that differences in social class often create awkward situations. If people always have the "latest and greatest" possessions, the person with the least amount of things will most likely feel left out. This causes them to separate and associate themselves with a group of people that they have more in common with. Of course, this does not apply to all situations; but is still noticeable.

Yuka I think this question depend on the people. Most of the time, I think people can look past the boundaries of religions and social classes, seeing that I was able to make friends with people of really different backgrounds. I do agree with Adam that religion and social class does affect people, but I think the degree of the effects depends on the people. In our current American society, there are so many different religions and social classes that you will encounter people of different cultural and social backgrounds. Religion and social class can be used as a way to meet people, however people have various reasons to become friends with people. If people are shallow and had strict childhoods, they may feel compelled to hang out with people of the same religion and social class. But I agree with John that social class do affect people and their choice of friends. As people become more open-minded, we can forget about religious differences. However, social class actually puts limit on what people can do, which can restrict people’s friend circle.

Sam Stargel (Response): To my dearest former lax-bro Adam- I would first like to say how much I enjoyed reading you post. But anyway, I really agreed with a lot of what you were saying. You mentioned how your church has a lot of events that brings you and the other members of the church together. I have also experienced this and my youth group has allowed me to become friends with these people. Also, the values of a religion would also drive people together as they would act in very similar ways. I think that this also goes along with the idea that people who are similar usually hangout with each other. I also agree with your statements about how the people come together in similar ways based on social class. You mention a country club, while for me it would be the tennis club I belong to and it can be seen that the members have similar economic status. You don’t even have to go into the pool to notice that, as you can just look in the parking lot and see the types of cars that are there. This drives a lot of people together and if you hang around people you are bound to become friends.

David Wheaton’s response as Holden: I’m not really sure all the time how religion and social class affect friendships. A lot of times, it seems like overly religious people can be real phony. But other times, they can be real genuine. Like this one time, I gave a ten-dollar donation to some nuns. They didn’t seem to want my money because they were scared I wouldn’t have enough for myself then, I guess. “They took it, though, finally.” (110) Other than that, though, I haven’t met many Catholics that actually cared about you, rather than just acting like they do to seem holy. How much money you’ve got and stuff like that is a different story. I suppose you could make friends with someone who is poorer or richer than you are. But I had a roommate that I wasn’t best friends with or anything. He had these inexpensive suitcases and he kept calling mine bourgeoisie and being snotty about it, but he was a hypocrite about it. He liked to pretend my suitcases were his, which really ticked me off. I guess it was just our social class differences that kept us apart, so I guess it can make it tough to make friends with people from other classes.

Elizabeth Marshall In response to Adam and Lisa, I agree that a person's religion or social class exposes them to certain groups of people. This means that there will be a MORE LIKELY chance of becoming friends with those similar to oneself and a LESS LIKELY chance to people who dont share those traits in common. However, I do not believe the religion or social class itself is the discriminating factor. The mere fact that they exist do. Friendships tend to be based off of what is held in common. It could be both people play soccer, or both enjoy similar types of music, or perhaps both people have multiple siblings. Either way, it is common bonds in general that show a likelyhood of friendship, and religion/economic class are just factors of that. Another point that Lisa touched on was how important religion/economic class are to society. In our current American Society, I would say the above statement was relevant, but elsewhere this is likely not true. If a society puts great pressure on religious affiliation, it could matter greatly, and likewise with economic status.