First+Period-+Question+6

Group Members: Izzy Kuller, Gordon Morris, Kent Brouwer, Robert Moore =**Question #6**=

**If life is a “game”, what are the rules, and what does it mean to “win”?**
Izzy- It’s very interesting to think that life could be a “game” in the way that children think of games (as though there are players, rules, winners/losers) but it can most certainly be done. Because there has been no philosophical proof of anything in regards to some of the “big questions” (such as origin, happiness, and the afterlife) I think that there are no overarching “rules” to our game. However, we do create individualized rules for ourselves as we go along. Sometimes these rules are developed based on relationships with the world but it can be argued that there are countless other influences in our conscience that have equal effect on our decisions. When I think of all the differences in things people say and do to “win” at this multifaceted game I find it hard to believe that there really is a simple, one size fits all way to “win.” The two most visible parts of the end game to me are the physical and the metaphysical goals. To “win” in the physical world to me is undeniably a whole different ball game to different people, however, metaphysically I would say that “winning” comes in satisfaction. I don’t think that happiness is everyones crowning achievement. An example where that may be accurate is in the case of an artist. Though this artist may not be the happiest person all the time he/she is satisfied with his/her latest piece of work. Production of something that can be seen as greater than oneself is satisfying and can thus, in my eyes, be seen as more fulfilling than pure happiness.

Robert-I certainly agree with Izzy's conclusion that just because we don't know of any origins, happiness, or afterlife, doesn't mean that our "Life Game" cannot have objectives, //crude// or complicated. However, the only //real// "rules" are what we physically //can// and //cannot// do. Beyond that, we have free rein in our own world. The only other rules we apply to ourselves. We are physically //able// to lie, cheat, steal, or even murder. Only our conscience prevents us prom fulfilling these unwholesome selfish desires. You could live your life out as Grand Theft Auto, or The Sims. Just as in virtual games, sometimes we do sympathize with the desires and goals of others, and we're more likely to assist those that aid us in our personal endeavors. In any sense, the goals of our "life game" are purely //subjective//. From becoming a martyr, to wanting to winning an Olympic goal, to wanting to survive a war. The goals can rapidly change, and are constantly updated. Short term and long term desires come into effect, and this ultimately changes the way we view our world. //Winning// becomes insatiable. It is, perhaps, //impossible//... in any real sense of the word. There is always more to do, more to discover, to find, to explore. Questions are not answered about morality, ethics, the nature of //God// himself... In the end, we **all** die. In the end, we do not fulfill all that we //could// have. And so the "Life Game" becomes a farce. No matter how far we come, we could still go further. We could "run faster, stretch out our arms farther..." The question becomes this: Can we be truly happy with what we can accomplish in a minute amount of time, 80, perhaps, 100 years if we do not die an untimely death? Perhaps winning is the prize given to that individual who- although he or she may not have done everything they want in life, they die happy in their attempts, however //futile//.

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Kent- I disagree with what Robert was saying about how there are physical limitations that people can not accomplish, and that we as humans have free reign in our own world. I think that any person who sets their mind to something even if it may seem impossible, can “finish the job”. The problem is that people become scared, or create images of what things are like, thinking that they cannot do the work. People in the world will never have “free reign”! There will always be limitations although they may seem impossible at the time, (as I said earlier) anything can be done if only people would take the time to work at it.=====

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I think that in life you can only “win” if you are happy from what you accomplish before your death. Now, every person is going to have different thoughts on what you yourself must do in order to succeed in life. For example, just because you do not win in a TV show (Survivor, The Amazing Race) does not mean that you should not, or cannot be happy from what you have accomplished. Going back to what I said earlier about people that create these visions of things: winning is one of these things. People think of winning as getting awarded a trophy, or being given a cash prize. But I think that winning does not consist of this. But in fact, it only means that you are happy for what you have accomplished through your lifetime. Over time, I think people create their own rules, because they do not always want to believe what someone else believes. They want to have their own set of principals from which they can live their life by, which in turn may be the deciding factor if they “win” in life, (which is supposedly what everyone wants). Again, these ideals are based only on that one person, because every person has a different belief on how they should live their own life.=====

Gordon- Well I want to start off by saying everyone had very valid points to make, and I am just going to share my point of view about the question. I do like what Robert said about GTA and Gordon- Well I want to start off by saying everyone had very valid points to make, and I am just going to share my point of view about the question. I do like what Robert said about GTA and the Sims. If life was a game it would be somewhat like the baby of these two games, it would take the aspect of freedom from GTA and the half reality of the Sims. GTA would be an accurate representation accept for some of the things you can do legally in that game you would be arrested in an instant for in real life. Honestly life does sort of feel like a game...sort of. The rules of the game would be the laws of society weather spoken or just common sense. And yes I am about to compare real life to GTA. In Grand Theft Auto you have a phone and your "family." You start out with no contacts on your phone as a "baby," and then as the game progresses you gain contacts that can help you out in life. In my eyes winning the game of life is making it through all of the stages(baby, toddler, pre-teen, teen, adult) of life or levels of life with theleast amount of problems or hiccups to overcome, and you live life as well as you possibly can until your satisfied with your ending.If life were a game it would be much like real life except it would probably be easier and have cheats because no game today doesn't have cheat that one could use to make "life" easier(no pun intended).

Robert- Kent, people can't accomplish anything if they put their mind too it. No manner how fast I run I'll never run a mile in a second. Therefore there are physical limitations to our world.

Kent- (to Robert) Yes, obviously this is a limitations! However I mean people could accomplish reasonable tasks if they put their mind to it. Not something absurd like running a mile in a second, more like running a mile in 6 minutes.

Robert- These are precisely the limitations that give us this "gamelike" world and bring us closer to winning or losing. There are no extra lives, there are no perks, and no second chances or rewinds. However, it is possible to increase your chances of survival, or better yourself in such a way to improve mating chances, the biological imperative that becomes winning in a sense of nature. Winning in a sense of personal choice is quite different altogether. Similar to in Grand Theft Auto, you can work out, eat healthy, and these things allow your "character", in essence, your body, to work better and become stronger, faster, smarter. Which brings us back to the idea of "winning" in a personal sense. Physical limitations impede our personal ability to affect our own outcomes, but equalize the game "settings" for all.

Izzy (as Holden)- This sounds like some phony question people ask when they expect for me to be all serious. It doesn’t matter that I don’t want to tell them the answer. The answer doesn’t even matter does it? They already have some brainwashed thoughts running through their heads that they want you to agree with. It’s those kinds of phonies that make up all the rules while they expect everyone else to live by them. I mean, don’t get me wrong, “if you get on the side where all the hot-shots are, then it’s a game.” I bet some of them think it’s fun too. People never pay attention to anything. If they did then they’d know that no one wants to hear someone tell them how to live their life. I know I sure don’t need any of those phony rules.

Kent (as Holden)- This some bull crap!!!! In life there are no rules, and what the hell does it mean to play by them! Why can’t people just go around making up their own beliefs and ideas in life, because in a game there is always going to be a winner, but life is not a game. I mean people that actually think life is a game are phonies anyway, so why would I want to play life as if it were a game. These people think that they can just do whatever they want and not pay attention to anything or anyone around them. How inconsiderate is this?!?! There is no such thing as winning in life; this is a bunch of crap! Everybody is either going to go to hell or go to heaven, it’s that simple. As for myself, I’m probably going to hell anyway so why would I even try (or for that matter care) to “win” in life?!

Andriy Rusyn (response to Kent) I don't think you really grasped Holden's point of view that well. You had me going for a little while right up until you said that everyone is either going to heaven or hell. Holden clearly says that he is and Atheist, and therefore does not believe in either of those things... I also agree more with the way Robert portrayed Holden, especially since in the book Holden mentions multiple times how he thinks it's only a game if you are on the winning side. You should have included a quote, then maybe you would have a better understanding of what Holden thinks, because I think maybe you didn't really read this part of the book too well. Holden explicitly states that life is a game only to the winners, so therefore he would not say it is "bull crap". I think he would say something more like "sure, life is a game, but only to the winners, while to us losers it's just a charade". I also don't think he would call something inconsiderate, seeing as how he might consider calling something inconsiderate to be a very phony thing to do.

Sam Stargel to Kent (as Holden) I am also going to have to disagree with your perception of Holden, and what his views are in regard to the phrase “life is a game”. First of all you say that its bull crap and you imply that in life there is no winner. But, when Holden is talking to Old Spence he mentions how life is a game if you are on the winning side, implying that there is indeed a winner in life. You also touch on the subject of religion where you say that you are going to hell. I feel like Holden believes in more of a divine spirit, and not the organization of religion. So I feel like he would not really have a preference in hell or heaven, as he doesn’t believe in this organization. When you say that Holden doesn’t care if he goes to hell, I feel like that is not one hundred percent accurate. Holden wants there to be something looking after him, and I feel like he does care about where he ends up in regards to this divine spirit. I do understand though where you are coming form with the idea that phonies don’t pay attention to the things around them, and I do feel like you did a good job in staying in character there. I also believe that he would never punctuate his work such as you did (e.g. !!!!!), as this seems to me to be very childish, and Holden is very sensitive about his age Robert( as Holden)- You can spout off bullshit, but that won't make it true. The truth is that if life is a game we all lose sooner or later, so why play? There is always someone richer, smarter, better looking, and it's just a load a shit. It doesn't help anyone to stand around playing the game of life, they will all die, and they will not be remembered by this world. They're just a bunch of phonies too, if they think by doing "good" they'll be remembered. That's the only reason they do the right thing- so they'll be remembered, so it'll help them out- it's because they're selfish too!

Gordon (as Holden)- I think this is goddam grade A crap. If life was a game it would be the worst ever because eventually everyone will lose, there is no winning in the game of life. If your family is crap that just makes life a whole goddam lot harder to play because you just gotta' keep diggin' yourself out of the goddam hole your stupid parent brought you into. This game would have/has so many phonies it makes it hard to think about anyone not being a phony. All I want to do right now is get out of this hell hole of a city and escape to the mountains where nobody will bother me and i can live out my life in solitude and peace.